Rebecca

Author Comment Rebecca
Sep 15, 08 - 11:06 AM The Original Sin

Dear All

As there is no question that God is just, merciful and kind. There is also no question that God will not punish you for a sin that you yourself did not commit. For example, if my great-great-great grandmother stole a loaf of bread, it would be thought of as ridiculous and completely unjust to punish me because I was not the person to steal the bread. How then can seemingly rational people believe that all of mankind has been punished for the sin of Adam and Eve? It is completely irrational. Or to borrow an example from history, why would God punish, for the sins of all mankind, a man who did not commit one sin himself? This to me hardly seems just or merciful. So, in saying this, I find it impossible to believe in the Original Sin. If the God that every monotheistic religion in the world is as they say, a most Merciful, Just and Perfect being, I just cannot reconcile in myself that he could possibly do something so unjust. So if there is no Original Sin, then what of Jesus? Some believe that Jesus is God, that in itself is just pure insanity, he cannot possibly be God and the Son of God at the same time. He cannot be his own father, nor can he be his own son. Not only a Son, but a begotten son! Now if God can just say BE and it is, why would he need to 'beget' a son? 'Begetting' as the Bible phrase suggests, is an act of animals, or people, it is not the act of the Almighty and to even suggest such a thing is insulting. Marrying is for us imperfect human beings, it is not for the God of All. If then God and Mary were not married and 'begot' a child, this child would be illegitimate, God is not a celebrity or any man off the street, God is the creator of All! He would not go against the rules he himself created and father an illegitimate child. However, since God can say BE and it is, I can accept that Jesus was born miraculously, that he was one of the mightiest prophets of God that ever existed. I cannot however believe he was the Son of God, at least not anymore than you or I. If anyone could enlighten me with a RATIONAL explanation I would appreciate it. God would not tell mankind to do something, then set an example of the opposite, that is not perfection, that is hypocrisy and God is not a hypocrite.

Regards.

Rebecca

My Reply as follows:

Michael

Part 1

Sep 20th, 2008 - 4:12 AM Re: The Original Sin

God Creator is indeed just, merciful and kind as you mentioned, and in my eyes also it's hard to accept He would punish me for another's sins, but if the bible is correct on this, then it can only be that we as believers do not spiritually understand the true meaning. This is often the case with the Hebrew language. Ask yourself, if Creator God is indeed merciful and just as we both agree...then poses the question as to why are children born without arms and legs, or deaf dumb and blind? See what I mean? What does the Rabbi answer to this question? Simply that the wisdom of God passes all understanding, which of course jives exactly with what I said above.

Personally I don't believe we are paying for the sin of one man Adam, but rather being introduced to the sin that he brought into the world. I also see this as an integral part of God's wisdom in developing us as souls to at some time be graced by His presence. I don't know how developed you are spiritually so I am limited to my response in a sense, but just to add that there is much we don't understand simply because we are not ready/capable, and in some cases...will never be ready in this body we live. One thing worth considering in relation to your story about original sin is this; did Jesus sin and did He pay for the sin of others?

Some people do believe that Jesus is God (not that I do) but I don't see that as a salvational issue, so long as the believer looks to imitating Him and seeking perfection. If one is not against Him...they are for Him; the important issue concerning our souls is our morality. I see Yahoshua/Jesus as the son of God as you probably do, and of which we all can become as we return home to Him where we began, i.e. in righteousness.

To think of sons of God as a physical "begotten" thing as you mentioned is a touch carnal really. Who created you? Was it your mother and father or was it God? So your real father is the Father of your soul, and that is God your Father. Jesus said He is "my Father and your Father" .. so surely that means I am His son. We multiply (create) our bodies physically ourselves, but our souls are created spiritually by God. Now, which part lives and which part dies? Get my drift now Rebbecca? We are "begotten" by God only when we return home, and that is when we, in our hearts, believe in Him. Remember, just because we
profess to know Him, does not necessarily mean He knows us. He knows us when we return to the state He created us in.

Michael

Part 2:

Sep 20th, 2008 - 4:24 AM Re: The Original Sin

Begetting and marriage spoken of here by God is not to be taken literal as you might suppose...it is Hebrew idiom/symbolic language often used in the old testament especially by the prophets. For example: God created us, so that makes Him our Father and we His sons. Somewhere along the way we drift away from Him through our love of the physical, and so we become "Lo Ami"...or "Not my people". While in this state we are divorced from God but He always leaves the door ajar in case we find it in our hearts to return to Him, and thus be reconciled/married once again. In this case we become (spiritually) begotten of God, but of course not physically as many think. Being married to God simply means He owns us. This is pretty deep stuff and requires understanding before one makes rash statements about such things concerning the wisdom of God.

You said....I cannot however believe he was the Son of God, at least not anymore than you or I.
Well I can not give an absolute on this subject and I don't think anyone else can either. This is the most argued doctrinal issue in the world today. Not only is it debated within the family of God's people, but also amongst outsiders like Muslims and Hindus and such. The last few words of your statement are interesting..."anymore than you or I". You may not realize it but you probably answered your own question. According to the bible we are, as believers, all gods also. If this is true, then surely we can be sons of God also...yes? This is again not to be taken literal like most Christians take it I believe. As I said before, we become sons/daughters of God when we prove to Him we love Him by keeping His commandments. In doing this we return to Him as the Prodigal son, in pristine condition...purified in mind body and soul. The doctrine of faith only is only as old as Martin Luther...before that there was no such thing. Although this man is famous for the birth of Protestantism which is a good thing, his doctrines were quite often Antichrist. The "Faith only" doctrine is so false it is laughable. It shows the total lack of discernment of bible scriptures in some people who are also greatly lacking in God's Holy Spirit...especially of Paul's letters. Anyway, my point is...faith without works is indeed dead. Sheesh, even the devil believes in Christ, but that doesn't mean he pleases God.

Sorry for the length of this post but you touched on some great points that need to be discussed. I can only give my account according to how I am lead. That's the great thing about Christianity today...we can discuss issues and not have to suffer the impact of terrorism like some other religious groups I dare not mention.