In Search of a Tyre

Feb 09

At last, time to replace the Jackaroo tyres, the selection of a replacement is a saga in itself.
For those bored enough to read on, it goes like this.................

Since we were planning a two month trip soon, preparations turned to tyres.
With the present B F Goodrich AT tyres are down to 4.5mm tread depth (the lowest I would ever go) and showing definite signs of age related deterioration, it was time to replace them.
A few hours on the internet to see what was available to suit the Jackaroo revealed a good range of choice.   Little did I know then how long this selection process was going to end up taking.

The Jackaroo tyre size is 245/70R16, with 225/75R16 and 215/80R16 being optional, also a 235/70R16 is a possibility and a 255/70R16 also allowable under the +15 / -26mm rule (more on that later).
The minimum load rating is for the vehicle 107.

My criteria dictated that the new tyres absolutely must be,  
 * LT (light truck) and rated 113 or better and 
 * an all terrain pattern.
Also, I definitely did not want any budget or poverty brand and also had a definite preference for the country of manufacture.
 
This limited my choice to the following........
 
In a 245/70R16 LT  (the preferred size)

B F Goodrich All Terrain T/A USA	Bridgestone Dueler 694 Japan	Pirelli Scorpion ATR Brazil

In a 225/75R16 LT

Toyo Open Country M55 Japan	Toyo  Open Country A/T Japan	Mickey Thompson ATZ 5 Rib USA	Cooper ST USA	Michelin LTX A/T Various

In a 215/80R16, (was intended as a split rim option)
   Nothing that I could find.

In a 235/70R16
Only one in a LT, a B F Goodrich All Terrain T/A but load rating only 104.

In a 255/70R16
  Only one in a LT, a B F Goodrich All Terrain T/A.

Now it's time to contact tyre retailers to get the best price.

The more that I enquired, the more fascinated I became by the range of opposing views and the strategy employed to make a sale. 

My first visit was to a Aust wide franchise where I first began to realised how hopelessly ill informed the majority of sales staff are in almost all tyre outlets in anything other than very basic matters.  Prices here were middle of the road but advice was biased, inaccurate and very misleading.

Next was to another Aust wide franchise where all the manager wanted to do was argue in an attempt to sell me something I didn't want. Twenty years in the business he claimed and denied the existence of four of the tyres on my short list.   When I found them in his catalogue he gave me some of the highest prices that I was to encounter.   Not only were prices well above average, again, advice was biased, inaccurate and very misleading.

Product knowledge in both tyre outlets was surprisingly poor, they initially insisted that the specific tyres that I was enquiring about didn't exist and then when proved wrong employed the annoying tactic of trying to convince me that I didn't want or need them, their option was more suitable.  Probably adequate if you were after tyres for a Commodore of Corolla, but off road 4WD tyre info was woeful.   Pity anyone who relied solely on their advice.

In my search during the following week I contacted 43 tyre outlets and visited 18 of them from Brisbane to the Gold Coast.

Any problems usually centered around the fact that they couldn't understand why I insisted on a LT rated tyres since the load rating exceeded the minimum for my vehicle, they obviously don't do any off road driving and if they do it must be limited to sand only.
As I have said elsewhere, P rated tyres used off road usually have a life expectancy measured in days not kilometers.

I was consistently told by 
- 14 of outlets that all 4WD tyres are light truck rated - absolutely wrong, in fact most are not
- 9 did not realise that the P prefix meant "passenger" construction
- 7 showed me a P245/70R16 AT and insisted that it was a light truck rated tyre
- 14 initially insisted that the specific tyres that I was asking about did not exist 
- 24 did not know that when a load rating of 113/110 is given, what the 110 meant 
       (one of my evaluation questions).
One told me it was a US / Europe rating depending where the tyre was sold, another that it was and on road / off road rating, half of the rest had never noticed it and the remainder didn't have a clue.
And these are the same people who have the task of advising us of our tyre needs.   Sadly, many of them would not be qualified to advise on a tyre for my wheelbarrow.
I got the impression with a few of them that a tyre was just a black bit of rubber to stop the mag wheels from dragging along the ground.

One nationally franchised chain first mentioned consistently produces a cover sheet from a 4WD magazine "test" that supposedly gave a brand they were pushing, a Pirelli Scorpion ATR, the top overall rating.  Upon investigation, in the "test" the Pirelli was the AT (that had been discontinued 12 months ago), an entirely different tread pattern to the ATR, what do they say about never letting the truth get in the way of a good story ?
In any case, even if the story was accurate, how much value would you give to a magazine article ?   When someone like Choice, who employ academically qualified staff, who purchase all of the products they test and are not beholding to advertisers does a comparison, then I'll take notice.

Yet another from a large nationally franchised chain tried to sell me a LT245/75R16.   When I declined on the basis that the tyre diameter exceeds the +15mm rule he claimed that the regulations had been changed in Qld to +50mm and read from a paper so as to prove his point.
Doubting this, I subsequently contacted Qld Transport and they emailed back to confirm that it was NOT +50mm but still +15mm.   An extract from their reply.....
"The current diameter increase allowed for a wheel on all vehicles is 15mm+ and 26mm- from the manufacturer's largest option tyre.
The 50mm increase you mentioned has been a common enquiry, and stems from the National Code of Practice for Light Vehicles.   This document however is still only a draft document, being discussed between all states and territories.   As this code is still yet to be finalised I can not yet speculate on what the allowances will be under this code.   Queensland has however indicated that if the code is finalised in sufficent time, implementation will occur from 01/07/2009."
The consequences of fitting that oversize tyre would have meant an unroadworthy vehicle and denied insurance claims.
Note, not all states are the same, NSW for example is +15mm / -15mm at the time I wrote this article.

My Golden Rule - Don't believe anything you are told and only half as much as you read.

I know it's not fair to lump all of one particular franchise in the same basket but two franchises were consistently disappointing to visit, one very much so.    I like to refer to them collectively as MacTyres.
From my recent experience, of the larger franchises, the Tyrepower ones were usually a better bet than the others in product knowledge and often price, particularly in their favoured brands.
I found the Bridgestone and Goodyear franchises that I visited were usually helpful and reasonably well informed also.

I also formed the opinion that a pristine sales area and comfortable waiting room with coffee dispenser does not guarantee good product knowledge and quality advice, indeed, often scruffy was good, with generally lower prices particularly on their preferred tyres brands.

My advice to anyone purchasing tyres (or anything else for that matter), spend an hour or so on the internet and find what tyres suit you and your vehicle and have a few facts about them.  I absolutely guarantee that you will have far better knowledge of those specific tyres than 90% of all sales staff.   
Too many of those I spoke with, while sounding like experts, were hopelessly ill informed, many offering very inappropriate advice.

Also, shop around, prices vary considerably, for example, at 26 Feb 09,
 

You should be aware that most tyre outlets, although they market most brands, will "push" particular brands.  It often doesn't have a lot to do with the suitability of the tyre but rather because their wholesale purchase discount depends on volume, much better for them to sell 100 Brand X than only 50 Brand X and 50 Brand Y.    Which means, shop around, their preferred brand may be the one you are after.

One brand that come in for a lot of bagging particularly from one large franchise is the Bridgestone, why, because Bridgestone have their own chain of outlets where you can almost always buy them cheaper, at least in the more specialised types and sizes.   Although most franchises sell Bridgestone, they are usually not price competitive and so steer you to their higher margin brand with subtle inferences denigrating Bridgestone tyre life or reliability which couldn't be further from the truth.

The good guys in the business, like Trevor from Grahame Crooks Tyres at Logan Village, tell you up front which tyres, although they can get them, are not competitive on price.
(For two brands I mentioned to him, Bridgestone and Mickey Thompson, without asking, he recommended other retailers to try and gave me names and phone numbers.   Many in the same situation just bagged the tyres they couldn't/didn't sell.)

(Email already - obviously not an Aussie, "bagging" = to unfairly or unjustly criticize) 


Things I should mention . . .

I had very credible adverse comments on a particular brand that was initially considering, mostly concerning ruptured side walls, and this is a premium price and very well known tyre.
It wouldn't be fair to name any tyres because while comments may be credible, that's well short of being fact.
The purpose of mentioning this is because it wouldn't fair if I didn't, it's up to you to do your own homework and draw your own conclusions.

An interesting later comment from a reader of this web site - a good way to evaluate tyres is to observe the discarded carcasses along the Birdsville Track, he found one brand (discounting all P rated tyres) had the dubious honour of dominating the scene and it was the same brand that I had been cautioned about.
It would seem that huge tread depth does not necessarily make a good durable tyre.

Coincidentally, I had been discussing this with a tyre professional who had attended a seminar where three tyres were cut in half to demonstrate the quality of construction.  The tyre chosen to demonstrate how not to build a tyre was this same brand.    This same tyre is however, an absolute triumph of marketing.

I was also cautioned on more than one occasion to be wary of tyres with an excessively hard tread rubber compound due to poor grip levels on sealed, particularly wet roads and a propensity to loose chunks of tread in off road use.

And don't read too much into the number of sidewall plies because what they don't tell you is the gauge or denier of the plies, for example, 3 plies of 1000 denier is the same as 2 plies of 1500 denier, therefore ostensibly the same strength. 
(Interestingly however, in a paper by du Pont de Nemours & Company it is stated "In these tests, the adhesion" with adjacent rubber "of samples with large nylon cords weakened more rapidly than that of small cords" 
Unlike the sidewalls (and therefore the tyre carcass) where the actual number of plies is usually given, for the plies under the tread area, it is usually just the equivalent of some standard ply for comparison purposes only.
In other words, an 8 ply tyre does not necessarily have 8 plies but just serves to compare the of strength of one tyre to another.
For example, a 10 ply tyre is more robust than an 8 ply tyre but neither tyre necessarily has an actual 10 and 8 ply construction.

When choosing a brand, I am sure that you can discount glowing testimonials, especially ones from minor celebrities who wouldn't remember the last time they paid for their own tyres.
(If Coopers, BFG, Bridgestone or some other brand want to keep me in a set of tyres, I'll write the most glowing testimonial that you could imagine.)

You can also largely disregard most comment on the internet chat sites, for any given tyre, whether it is a Coopers, Toyo, BFG, Bridgestone, Pirelli etc, for everyone that says that tire is rubbish, someone else will say it's the best tyre they have ever owned.
It is obvious many do not realise that the same tyre, same tread pattern, can often be manufactured in a P and LT construction, a huge difference when evaluating resistance to staking or ride comfort and that the way a tyre is used and treated will have a large bearing on opinions.

From the countless people I have spoken with over recent years whose opinions seemed credible, the most highly regarded, least complained about 4x4 tyres would seem to be, 
B F Goodrich (made in the USA), Toyo (100% Japanese made) and most Bridgestones (mostly Japanese and Aust made).


Finally . . .

Therefore, after a two week search, it came down to the following.....

In a 245/70R16LT, it was between the B F Goodrich All Terrain T/A (USA) and the Bridgestone Dueler D694 LT (Japan).

In a 225/75R16LT, it was the Toyo M55 (Japan), a rugged 10 ply all terrain tyre, a standout tyre with an excellent reputation.

Since I was giving preference to the 245/70R16LT, the Toyo was eliminated but if it had been available in that size, it would probably have been my first choice.
Toyo answered all my emails and the staff at the Brisbane warehouse were very knowledgeable, helpful and obliging.

Finally after much deliberation and almost the toss of a coin, I went with Bridgestone LT245/70R16 113S D694FZ OWT (to give the tyre its' full name).
I can now file away enough literature that would rival War & Peace in volume.

I based my decision, rightly or wrongly, on the premise that there wasn't going to be too much difference, if any, in off road ability nor puncture resistance but on road, particularly in the wet, an edge for the Bridgestones.
The BFG has a slightly more aggressive tread pattern, although with the Bridgestone looks may be deceiving and near identical tread depth, BFG, 12.7mm and Bridgestone 694, 13.0mm and identical tread width as near as I could measure.
Keep in mind when reading tyre specifications, if they are from the USA, they talk in 32nds of an inch not mm for tread depth, therefore when they say 12, that is 12/32" or 0.375" which is 9.5mm not 12mm.

Also in the back of my mind was the deterioration at the BFG sidewall-tread interface in two of the four tyres that I had not experienced in any other tyres (probably unfair criticism due to the age but nevertheless......although, I do have a couple of Bridgestone Dueler 684 H/Ts even older with no signs of deterioration).  This fault extended around the entire circumference giving the appearance that the tread was soon to part.
I am certainly not complaining, 87,000 Km, half that towing a caravan, with only one puncture, a nail that I picked up around town.

Although I have gone for Bridgestones this time, I have no hesitation at all in recommending the B F Goodrich A/T, it's a great tyre, if the Bridgestones perform and last a well I'll be very happy.

Price had absolutely no bearing on my choice, it was based solely on my perception of the merits of all the tyres that I had researched that suited my particular needs.

Knowing that all prices were going up at the end of the month in a few days time, I rang Mal from Bridgestone at Browns Plains to confirm his earlier quoted price of $265 less $5 RACQ discount and to place an order.  He informed me that there was a price rise but there was also some Bridgestone specials next month. To my surprise he rang the distributors and offered me the tyres for $250 including the RACQ discount.
Considering that minutes earlier I had just rang two other Bridgestone franchises and was given $285 by one (who told me to take the $260 offer, he couldn't match it) and the other, $320 with a "take it of leave it mate, that's the best I can do".     Once again, shop around, even within the same franchise chains.

In this time, I only encountered only two tyre brands that escaped criticism from within the industry, BFG (except for the price and probably because of it) and Toyo.   All of Bridgestone's criticism that I encountered was from rival tyre outlets (that knew they couldn't match Bridgestone franchise prices) which I discounted.   Pirelli wasn't too far behind. 

It has been an "interesting" experience, personalities ranged from the helpful and well informed to the belligerent and ill informed who were clearly out of their depth and really should consider a change to something more suiting their ability and personality.

Although this would only be of any interest to those on the Brisbane south side to the Gold Coast, I shall include it anyway, the tyre outlets that I would recommend from those I spoke with are..........
 

I must also mention and thank Andrew from Toyo at Coopers Plains, well informed and helpful (warehouse only, not a sales outlet) and Stephen Burke, Tyre Technical Officer, Motor Sport Liaison Officer, Toyo Tyre & Rubber Australia Limited for their assistance with my enquiries.

A good source of info on most brands is a USA web site the Tire Rack, worth a look.

Another really useful web site for comparing tyre sizes and generating a list of tyres in that size is another one from the USA, 1010Tires

Here is a link to another page on this web site where I talk about my ideas on tyre pressures for different terrains going back to the 60's.    See  Tyre pressures and other stuff.

  

And
just in case you are interested, below is a speed and load rating table, but as I have said elsewhere, it may contain errors.